Does flywheel always need to be replaced with clutch?

[kbsilver]

Just planning for the inevitable with my E46 328i. We're currently at 191K miles still on the original clutch. Investigating replacement it seems as the dual mass flywheel almost doubles the cost of the clutch job. Is it's replacement really needed on the 1st clutch job if never abused? Does it help to replace the clutch before it starts slipping to save the flywheel? While I'm asking 20 questions what is the recommendation for tightening up the shifter, just replace the OEM bushings/parts or move up to something like a UUC shift kit?

I just checked the oil level and after 8K miles it's still on full! (Yes I then changed it).

Thanks!

[victory1auto]

There are a couple problems with the D-M flywheels.

They are difficult and impractical to resurface, so you are correct that if the old clutch is slipping or chattering, replacement is usually required.

Another problem is that the two flywheel masses move circumferentially with respect to each other, restrained by internal springs and stops, and they are supported on a central bearing surface. How long all this internal stuff is going to last is anyone's guess, but at nearly 200k, if you intend to keep the car, I think you should replace the flywheel.

I know you know this, Keith, but for those who do not, the flywheel is quick and easy to change once the transmission and clutch have been removed. Removing the transmission entails a significant amount of labor.

[kbsilver]

I know you know this, Keith, but for those who do not, the flywheel is quick and easy to change once the transmission and clutch have been removed. Removing the transmission entails a significant amount of labor.

Thanks for the info. I know it's easy to change the flywheel once you are in there. The issue is the nearly $1000 cost of the flywheel. I do not have a lift and am too old to pull out a transmission on my chest, so not a DIY for me. My son still really likes the car but if we do a clutch and flywheel plus the new tires it will need in the spring, we just exceeded the value of the car. Other than cooling system components, front control arms, shocks and brakes, most items on the car are still original. My son is not mechanically inclined and lives 300 miles away. And although it continues to run great, I do not know if it's a good idea that he drive a car with 200K+ miles on it, thus a critical decision needs to be made in the near future.

[TimCircleBMW]

Keith, With that many miles on the car, no matter how nice the car was driven, you are almost guaranteed vibration and chatter if you do not do the flywheel. We do TONS of these and the people that declined doing the flywheel always regret it. If you are keeping the car, do the flywheel. If your plans are to sell the car soon, skip it. As Vic said, the trans is out, replace everything that can be replaced in there. Pilot Bearing, Flywheel, Rear Main, Shifter Seals, etc. Best of luck and hopefully we can discuss this again at 400K - Tim

[edw1]

Look into the Valeo single mass flywheel and clutch conversion.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=958649

I have heard rumors about ZF/Sachs working on something similar but I have not seen anything yet. In my opinion, the old school sprung hub Sachs clutches were the best things ever bolted to a BMW single mass flywheel.

[victory1auto]

>the old school sprung hub Sachs clutches were the best things ever bolted to a BMW single mass flywheel.< That bears repeating.

I believe that one reason BMW went to the D-M flywheels was to reduce the gearbox clatter one hears when idling in neutral with the clutch engaged. Especially with modern trans fluids. I know that with the D-M to single-mass conversions I have done, the amount of gearbox clatter has increased. It never bothered me to begin with.

That is a good write-up on the E46 Forum. I disagree with one point, however: In my understanding, the springs on a sprung-hub clutch are not intended to reduce gearbox clatter. They are much too stiff as compared with the springs in a D-M flywheel. They are intended to "soften" the engagement of the clutch. Every non-D-M-flywheel clutch I have ever changed has had a sprung-hub, and this predates by many years the term "gearbox clatter".

[equequ]

FYI, the springs on our original e39 528i DMF went at around 130k miles. The clutch still had material remaining, but obviously had to go.

Went with the Valeo single kit with some trepidation, mechanic was kinda worried too... Utter success! No chatter that I could discern and crisper than stock engagement (and not just worn out old OEM) with better feel through the pedal. I'd do the valeo kit on any inline-6 bmw that accepts it on any day and twice on Sunday.

[kbsilver]

The mechanic where my son lives also recommended eliminating the DM flywheel. Car is now at 205K miles and still going strong. However at this point I suspect my son will replace rather than repair the car for anything that costs over $1000 at this point.